Getting started in political blogging
AG Bill Schuette using his office as a right wing political tool
Wisconsin Democrats submit more than 1,000,000 signatures to recall Gov Walker
Asking for democracy is democracy in action
‘Choose Life’ plates would fund Right to Life through the Secretary of StateI hate it when bloggers blog about themselves, but this experience might help someone out there.
Ok. So I get my propane from McBrides / Northwest, and I just paid $3.59 a gallon.
This did not seem right to me, so a friend of mine called them to check on it. The current rate for propane is $2.59 if you own your own tank (I don’t) and $3.19 if you rent.
So I call McBride, and it takes them until the next day to have a manager call me back. No, he says, it’s $2.59/gallon if you own, but it’s never been $3.19, where the heck did you get that idea, and market price is $3.59 and that’s what you’re going to pay if you want heat and hot water. But if you get on the budget plan where you pay us every month, it’s about $2.59 a gallon.
I don’t want a monthly payment! I want to pay when I get the propane.
So, I guess I’m buying my propane tank. And I’m stuck with paying $3.59 this time.
And $1.00 per gallon to rent a tank? More than 1/4 of the payment goes to tank rental?
No wonder nobody can afford heat.
I have just received the same rip off price of 3.59 a gal from my propane company,Progas Propane in Grand Haven ,Mi
After calling other local propane gas companies I discovered that Progas was overcharging by over a dollar or more in some cases, and apparently were well know as a “rip off” company.
Taking their advice I called to confront Progas and did receive a discount,but was still being ripped off. I will switch companies asap that will assure me that a doubling of my bill will not happen again.
This sort of price gouging should be reported to the attorney general.
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Then there are those who rent. What happens when the landlord rents the tank and there is no control by the renter over where they get their propane? The unfortunate renters are forced to pay the higher rate and get stuck with the rental fee – then they can’t have the tank removed to rent from somewhere else, because they don’t own the property…..really stinks.
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We had the same problem with McBride’s a couple years ago. That’s when we discovered that McBride’s were no longer locally owned, and we were now a number not a customer.
We now have a locally owned, for 100 years, company Lansing Ice and Fuel. Many of our neighbors switched to Lansing Ice and Fuel, as well. They have a program that costs $35 and locked us in at $1.69.
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Thanks Rick, I’ll definitely check them out.
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Chris, I am thinking about putting together a post that includes more info than just my experience. When I do I will post it over on bloggingformichigan.com and I will send a copy to the AG. It probably won’t matter, but at least the people in Lansing will see it.
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I called Amerigas last week for a fill 3.08 a gal. I called back to cancel and they lowered it 10%. The next day I called back again to change suppliers and they dropped to 2.26 a gal. What is it with these people???
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FYI:
By LIZ SHEPARD Argus-Press Staff Writer
Email this story | Print this story
Wednesday, March 12, 2008 10:04 AM EDT
Legal steps taken by Attorney General Mike Cox against Inergy Propane could affect what some area residents are paying to heat their homes, but the company is denying any wrongdoing.
Cox announced last week legal steps are being taken under Michigan’s Consumer Protection Act for excessive pricing of propane gas against Inergy Propane. McBride Oil and Propane of Owosso and Northwest Energy in Chesaning are listed on Inergy’s Web site as two of its retail locations.
The action is being taken after numerous complaints from consumers alleging Inergy charged high prices compared to average market price, reads a press release from Cox’s office.
According to Cox, some consumers reported rates as high as $4.39 per gallon of propane.
“Residential consumers of Inergy-supplied propane gas are having to spend more to heat their homes this winter because of these excessively high prices,” he said in a release. “If a consumer has a 500-gallon propane tank, and is being charged even $1 over the market price to fill the tank, the consumer is being overcharged by $500. That is unacceptable.”
Inergy Propane has 10 days to cease violations of the Consumer Protection Act, or be sued, according to Cox’s release. A Notice of Intended Action has been the first step taken against the propane company, said Michigan Attorney General spokesperson Matt Frendewey.
Frendewey said Inergy has contacted the attorney general’s office and requested a meeting, but wouldn’t release where they were in the process or what sort of outcomes could come from a meeting.
The legal steps are consumer-driven.
“Just like in any case, when we receive a consumer complaint we investigate it,” Frendewey said. “We investigated them and we (found)…that they are violating the Michigan’s Consumer Protection Act.”
A call to McBride Oil and Propane was forwarded to Inergy corporate headquarters in Kansas City.
“We strongly deny the allegations,” said Jim Cross, a senior executive of Inergy in a press release from the company. “The pricing practices at all of Inergy’s operations in Michigan are legal and consistent with local and industry standards as well as with historical pricing practices. Our pricing programs provide budget certainty to thousands of customers who rely on us for heating their homes.”
Cross added many customers are in pricing programs that either level prices or cap their price, and those who don’t participate in a program are “charged a fair rate based on the market price of propane at the time of their delivery.”
Many Inergy customers paid less than the average price of propane reported by the Michigan Public Service Commission, according to Inergy officials.
“Customers are clearly angry at the prices they pay at the pump as well as for propane,” said Inergy spokesperson Debbie Hagen.
She also said too many variables affect the price consumers see to release just how high the price reached for those not in programs.
Currently Inergy is working to resolve a lawsuit with a Gaylord Gas customer.
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PEOPLE>>> buy your tank tank if you can. Lock your propane price in the summer. This is the cheapest way to buy propane. I might also recommend a smaller not corporately owned company. Those compaines have stock holders to report to. Some large companies will buy smaller companies selling on that companys good name. Know who you are buying propane from and know who owns thems. Propane is Propane it is all the same and pulled out just a few places. Lock in spring, buy a tank. and remeber there is power in numbers if you can get several neighbors together you can negotiate a better price. Get several different companies and for God sakes get your price in writing. I worked in the business for years and left because of of things, that I considered not good business. Get your neighrbor togethers or just in the an area you will be amazed at the pricing you power you have when you are negotarting for a 20000 gallon account vs a 1000 gallon account. Believe me they will listen to you. Hope this helps
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I use propane to operate environmental remediation equipment. I probably spend about $40,000 a year at Amerigas alone, much less small suppliers outside Houston. In one delivery (we get three a week) there was 341.5 gallons put in the tank. The bill is $1753.88. We can’t get more money when fuel prices change and we can’t get Amerigas to negotiate.
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We are having the same problems in Ohio. I have just had the exact same experience as you and have filed a complaint with the Ohio AG. Maybe we can get what seems to be a industry-wide practice stopped!
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Very interesting to hear about Inergy’s price gouging in MI – we are seeing the same thing here in OH. The customer tank returns are piling up in their yard while the prices go even higher. I look forward to the Ohio AG investigating.
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Apparently I’m getting the news late on this-my local paper never said a thing about it!
I’m currently disabled here in Jackson County with no income yet from Workers Comp and have sold everything that’s not nailed down to keep heat in my home this winter. My tank is owned by Pearl Gas, one of the Inergy companies who’ve been overcharging us all winter. Of the 600 gallons of propane I’ve had to buy since Novemeber,200 gallon at a time, the cost has gone up $.50/gal every time I ordered.
It looks like I was overcharged almost $500 this winter-and, under the terms of the AG settlement, I wont get anaything back as the top rate I paid was ‘only’ $3.29/gal (plus taxes, delivery charges etc).
I’m pleased Mike Cox went after this bunch, but sure wish he’d been a bit tougher on this passle of thieves! Paying a state fine of $25,000 doesnt sound steep enough to keep them from doing this again: forcing them to pay us back every cent of the overcharge from the standard rate of $2.49/gallon might have been more appropriate.
Looks to me like we’ll be seeing this again next winter-and in the spring, they can just plan on paying another $25,000 fine-a small price of doing business, they’ll figure. Their website reports earnings are up over 14.7% over last year-wonder why?
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Here in Southern California I am paying 2.99/gal as of today. December was $2.66…
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I’m in the Texas panhandle, paying $2.35 a gallon and the company lets me use their tank free as long as I purchase the propane from them. The company was privately owned but recently bought out by West Texas Gas, but as far as I know, I have the same arrangement.
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Here in Mid Michigan Ferrelgas plays the same game. When buying propane its like buying a car anymore. I had a contract at $1.79 till March 08. But they try sent me a contract at a cap of 2.08 if i did nothing I am in that contract. I called around most everyone was at $1.59 to 1.79 I called them siad no to that contract. I called Ferrel a month or 2 later now they got a contract for the 1.79 what a game. I am looking to buy my own tank and as propane gets over $2.00 a gallon I been using elect heat, at a price north of $2.00 electic is cheaper. Am putting in electric hot water this summer.
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We are in a rural area about 50 or 60 miles west of Sacramento, CA. We rent, and get propane from Suburban Propane. We have been here for three years, and have been paying over $3.00/gal. since we moved in. It goes up each time. Our last delivery, in late Feb. cost us $4.09/gal. I thought that was what everyone paid. Stupid me!! I talked to a friend yesterday who rents too. He gets propane from a different company, and pays only $2 something per gal. That’s when I got online and started checking things out.
One more thing. When we moved in, the propane had been left on, and everything was lit. When we called to put the service in our name, they sent a guy out who turned off our propane and pilot lights, turned it back on and re-lit the pilot lights, and they charged us $75 to do that. I was left scratching my head on that one. Since we can’t control the price of propane, or gas, we are moving back into town.
Bummer, but that’s the only way we will survive financially. I can’t imaging what they will charge next time.
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I was wondering if anyone could help me i have pearl gas here in ohio and ive been paying $3.29 a gallon can anyone tell me what the going price should be and if i am getting ripped off
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has anyone considered a solar water heater? you will pay for one wether you get one or not. Payback is 4-6 years. 50-70% reduction in fuel costs. I just built my own system and it works great. I’m tired of paying 3.50+ for propane. we now heat totally with wood, have a clothesline, an indoor drying rack (amish dryer), a solar oven, a rocket stove, and am thinking about buying a pioneer maid wood cook stove. I’m looking forward to the day when I will call our propane supplier and tell them to come get thier tank.
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Be aware of a few things about wood stoves and such. They have very uneven heating patterns in homes. So what happens is that the region where the wood stove is gets nice and warm and dry, but the peripheral areas of the home stay cool to cold. The result is that the moisture from the hot area condenses in the cold areas. This causes the growth of mold and fungus. That results in respiratory problems, damaged carpets, damaged wood, etcetera.
People have varying resistance to fungus and mold spores and particles. Some will get seriously sick. A few will never have a problem. Most will be in between, and have low level symptoms of lowered respiratory capacity. You may find yourself clearing out your lungs for a few hours every day when you go out. For seniors, lowered respiratory capacity is a heart attack trigger.
The first year, there won’t be a lot. But each year after, it will increase. Some homes that have switched over to wood will have puffs of dusty stuff come up from the carpets or grey-black growth on the walls and in corners. That’s mold and fungus.
If you heat with wood stoves, work hard on a few things. First, try to distribute the heat like it would be distributed from a central heating system. There’s a reason central heat caught on. Our ancestors knew all about what happens with wood stove heat. Second, minimize carpets and upholstered furniture and drapes outside of the room where the stove is. Third, Have varnished wood, vinyl and other easy to clean things in the other areas. Last, at least once a year clean the other rooms very thoroughly. Scrub them down with lysol and other fungicide-mold cleaners. And hit the ceilings and walls too. (If your carpet does the puffs of dust thing if you pat it in the corners, it may be too far gone. But you can try deep cleaning the carpet with fungicides each spring at least.)
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Robbie – Pearl has been purchased by a company called Inergy that is trying to test the market pricing level. As noted above, Inergy was recently taken to task for price gouging by the Michigan attorney general. Your only recourse is to pull out the yellow pages and take quotes from all suppliers in your area. Make sure to ask who their ownership is. A decent price in Ohio right now would be under 2.50 if you are filling a 500 gallon tank or larger.
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[...] to buy since Novemeber,200 gallon at a time, the cost has gone up .50/gal every time I ordered. …http://christinebarry.com/2008/02/17/propane-price-gouging-in-shiawassee/Rising propane cost prompts farmers to experiment with corn stovesTwo area chicken growers decided [...]
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[...] own your own tank I don??t and 3.19 … 21 Responses to ???Propane price Gouging In Shiawassee? …http://christinebarry.com/2008/02/17/propane-price-gouging-in-shiawassee/current propane pricesWeekly propane prices and supply [...]
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I’m in southeast Michigan, and looking to buy a 1,000 propane tank. Anyone have suggestions as to who would sell and/or install tanks in the lower Michigan area?
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I’m in southeast Michigan, and looking to buy a 1,000 gallon propane tank. Anyone have suggestions as to who would sell and/or install tanks in the lower Michigan area?
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Hi Andrew, I don’t have any ideas on this. Sorry. Will post back though if something comes my way.
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After averaging around a buck for decades, I recently signed a contract with Clark Landmark for 1500 gallons for $2.34 for the 08/09 year. The previous year with Ferralgas was around $2.19, but they tryed to gouge me at about $3.69 when they overfilled my tank last spring to finish up my contract deliveries. They later lowered the price to the contract, but only after I threatened them with legal action. They actually, not only used up my contract, but overfilled the tank to 88% to gouge me, and that was after sending me a “rent” charge of $44.00 after I had had the same tank for nearly 20 years. For the last ten years, I begged them to repaint/repair the tank, but they said they didn’t have time. So when they tried to charge me this new rental fee, I refused, and they removed it. How many poor people just paid it thinking they had to? So, I changed from Ferrelgas to Clark Landmark and bought my tank (only 500 gallons), but not after having to pay spot prices for several fill ups until I could do a new annual contract with them. I can afford to heat my house, but propane is getting out of hand and I use it for everything here – heat, hot water, cooking and the clothes dryer. My overall cost has gone from about $2000 a year now all the way up to $4500 a year. Thank God at least I get my water/sewer for nothing and electric rates have remained stable, if not gone a bit lower. I wonder what the retired people on limited incomes must be doing to survive and they say the coming winter will be a tough one here in Ohio. We have an unlimited amount of propane and natural gas in this country and I cannot see why these prices are so high since they are not directly (in most cases) tied to the price of a barrel of oil (which should be only about $70, by the way, not $120, as it is today. We are well on our way of fullfilling the Democratic leaders’ hopes of having us all living a 3rd world existance since they don’t want us to expand energy output in any form!!
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After reading all the responses, price gouging is going on in Georgia also. Last year my brother’s mobile home community was converted to LPG by the owners. They did not want to repair the leaking natural gas lines & cut some deal with Amerigas. Amerigas is charging rental fees about $50.00/yr and the cost was $3.69 a gallon this past March. If you own your tank, they were charging $2.39 a gallon. Believe it or not in our area of North West Georgia, Ferrel gas was the cheapest at $2.09 a gallon.
Also if one does own the tank, no other company will sell you gas. My brother looked at purchasing a tank so that he can buy gas from the least expensive seller and then talked with Amerigas. Amerigas told him they would charge him to remove their tank.
The other problem I have encountered is that I can not find any site which shows the price of LPG during the summer and fall. The energy information administration website (http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/dnav/pet/pet_pri_wfr_a_EPLLPA_PRS_cpgal_w.htm) will not be showing prices until October. Does anyone know of another website?
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Mary, I do not know of another website, but I can ask around.
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has anyone have a problem with a leaking tank, and what were the cost assoicated with it? a buried tank
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Hi George, I will ask your question over on the Shiawassee Forums and see if anyone has any ideas.
Here is the thread
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I just paid $4.60/gal in southern calif october 23, 2008 from Ferrel Gas
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Propane distributers generally SUCK! We have been heating with propane for several years, and starting last year, they’ve decided they can rip out our guts because we don’t have much choice. Over the summer we bought a partial tank refill of about 220 gallons and paid over $600. We started thinking about how much it would cost to switch over to electric space heaters with the propane used to back them up.. on really cold nights. Looks like it will be less than half the cost of trying to keep warm with propane. It’s not as comfortable, generally, but its ok..and gives us some time to decide whether to go fully electic next year.
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We switched over from propane to a corn burner from that is tied in to our furnace ductwork which heats our 1800 sq ft home and we also started heating the basement because it is so affordable now. The corn heat is so warm and because it is such a warm heat the floors are even heated from the ductwork. It is so toasty in the winter. I love it, a way different even heat than propane forced air. We only use propane for water and dryer now. Our last propane heating season was going to cost about $3800 and when we switched to corn the next year our heating and residual propane use amounted to about $1800.
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I had a leak in my tank for years. I complained to Amerigas and they kept saying there was no leak. Then I finally took some soap and showed the guy where the leak was. It was a bad weld. I got compensated 200 gallons. Should have asked for more. You have the upper hand especially if you have a history of complaints and the problem was not resolved. in this case the tank was also defective. Good luck!
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Has anyone else signed a contract with progas last year starting from a advertisment for 1.49 a gallon. Increasing a maximum of 20cents per year x 2 years?
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Propane Fleecing?
If you’re a propane customer you’re probably in for another year of high prices despite the massive drop in other energy costs. Phone calls to local suppliers paint a pretty grim picture of higher prices this season while those consumers burning other fuels are getting at least some relief.
In July many Wisconsin suppliers sent out their yearly pre-buy contracts for a per gallon price of about $2.25. At the same time the futures price on the NYMEX Exchange was at an all time high of $1.98 a gallon. Since the price drop in crude and unleaded over the past several months, NYMEX prices have plummeted to less than 60 cents, about 70% less than summer highs! Check it out:
http://data.tradingcharts.com/futures/quotes/PN.html.
However, suppliers I contacted haven’t dropped their prices any appreciable amount. They are either unable or unwilling to sell their goods for a fair market price. I believe it’s the latter. Could it be that if they dropped prices farmers could not be gouged for the massive amounts of propane used to dry their corn? Or that the rural home owner could not be fleeced for even more profits? Just some wild thoughts.
Even including federal and state taxes on unleaded gas, the price of propane is MORE than unleaded in most markets, completely unheard of in the 20th and 21st century.
Call your supplier today and let your voices be heard. And it might not hurt to contact your state representatives. Something smells fishy and I don’t think it’s a gas leak.
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Greetings from Southern California:
I found this site when I was recovering from the shock of a $4.79 propane delivery yesterday. I found all of these comments to be ever so helpful. I called the company, Ferrellgas and raised Cane, to keep it clean. I must say, after many promises of contacting the various Energy Commissioners, Federal and State, and the ATtorney General, the General Manager assured me our rate for one year would be a commercial one of $2.85 per gallon. This is so wrong. OUr tank is to be filled when their trucks are in the area, but in 4 years this has never happened. What our experience has been is that once we are out of propane, in the winter, always without fail, we call and beg for service. They have tried to bill us an additional $150 for emergency delivery, but you know that didn’t fly. Bottom line is we need to demand some sort of oversight. I was told there is none because it is an open market commodity and customers are free to seek service elsewhere.
Unite People! Call and complain loudly. I am on a campaign to do something about these practices. Unbelievable greed! At a time when we are all supposed to be pulling together for mere survival.
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Is anybody knows where is the right place to file a complaint? I submitted an online to CA Dept. of Consumer Affairs but this issue falls outside their Dept. regulatory authority. I tried to find the page for complaint in the web of The State of CA, Dept. of Industrial Relations, Div. of Occupational Safety and Health, Pressure Vessel Unit which I got from them but none for a complaint page. I logged to FTC (Federal agency) site and tried to fill the complaint form but most of the questions in the form are not even related to this kind of problem. Anyway the FTC won’t resolve the problem but they gather complaints of some sort but not against propane hijackers? I probably just didn’t see it in their web site.
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I knew wholesale propane was in the 75c per gallon range and thought I was paying a lot. I buy from LA Bexton in Southern MI and paid $2.14 a couple days ago. My theory is that they have to recoup what they bought in 2008 at higher prices before they can start selling the cheaper “newer” propane. Perfectly understandable. I feel bad for anyone who’s paying $3 or $4.
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When I contacted my propane supplier in November, 2008 to question why prices were so high I was told that they had purchased a good deal of their supply in late summer when that wholesale price was high and were just making a fair profit. They said that they were periodically purchasing more inventories and that if their price went down, so would mine. I accepted the explanation and have been watching wholesale prices which have been plummeting while their retail prices only dropped a few pennies. In the last week my supplier actually raised their price. I called and was basically told that they were merely charging what other suppliers in the area were charging.
So, until one local supplier drops prices, I am stuck paying whatever they feel like charging regardless of the wholesale price.
The industry needs to be regulated and I encourage everyone to contact their state representatives. I am drafting a letter now.
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We paid $2.89 gallon for propane in December 2008 (way up by the Oregon border in Northern California). We were using natural gas (cheaper) and they switched us to propane. I called Blue Star and asked what the —-. I told them to put us back on natural gas and they said production was cut back so they had to give us propane. What a load of crap. I called Amerigas and they said we could switch to them and get 1 month at $2.19 and then it would go back to market price the following month.
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Live to far out to have natural gas. Propane prices are insanely high. Gas prices have dropped??? What kind of crap is going on?? Lost job here in Michigan, oh imagine that. One half tank of propane is 794.00, lasts about one month and a half and that is using a wood stove. What a damn scam!!! They will not come and fill the tank and let me make payments!! Doing all the credit checks on everything now, insurance, health, cars, taking a leak!! I am so sick of this country, but bail out wallstreet criminals! Yeah this country has gone so far down the pot! I cannot even heat my house. Look up who owns the Propane companies…very interesting lot of criminals…also check out how many in congress have dual citizenship with Israel…
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I purchased my tank this year after leasing for 10. I am able to shop around and pit companies against each other. I paid 1.75 a gallon from Thrifty propane in the fall and placed an order this week for 400 gallons at 1.90 a gallon. If you own your tank you can shop around. If you are locked in with Ferrell gas or others you are screwed. I suggest buying your tank or start chopping wood. Tank was $500, I figure i will save that this winter.
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What is going on here?? The wholesale price of propane is ~70 cents per gallon, yet my propane company wants almost $2.20 a gal. Last time propane was 70 cents a gallon wholesale, I was paying $1.50.
Something stinks like rotten eggs, pun intended!! This industry is ripe for regulation. They are gouging a captive customer.
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There are no regulations on propane resellers and they can do whatever they want. I see a cooperative in Texas selling to their customers at $1.58 per gallon. Seems as if the people need to buy a truck and go buy the product at $0.75 per gallon and pump their own. Just paid $2.75 per gallon today which is the biggest rip off ever. I am in the wrong busines, again!
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We’re paying around $2.80 a gallon here in NH. I’m going to email our state gov and complain as well.
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I have had Suburban Propane for 14 year and have experienced many of the problems that have been mentioned.
I am having a heat pump installed soon. I will still use propane but more as backup heat for below freezing.
I will also change my supplier who is at least 50 cents cheaper.
I think the electric costs will be far less for the time that i use it.
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